thinking some more about this, there's only two categories of owners who will really be affected:

1. Owners who have accumulated so many credits through the TOC and/or WIS Championship they can play for free. This is something that never should have been allowed to happen in the first place. Instead, loyalty rewards should have been given to owners who are consistently below .500 but keep spending money to help fill leagues. This is definitely going to cause some high-volume owners to stop playing or reduce the amount of teams they enter, but it was a band-aid that had to be ripped off at some point.

2. Owners who only join leagues they start themselves and thus can play off the theme league creator credit. There's no possible abuse of the system here, and this was not something that needed to be changed.

For anyone else who is regularly paying money for teams, this doesn't really change much. If such an owner makes a TOC run and unexpectedly gets a bunch of credits, instead of getting a few free teams right away, they now get twice that many teams at 50% off.

So I would say that if the site management allows theme league creator credits (and those credits only) to be fully redeemed without cost, and more importantly, announces this change loudly and clearly so everyone who's built up a ton of credits can cash them in, then I'm in support of it on the condition that upgrades actually happen. I downloaded the app and they claim live play is coming back for SLB, which would be a great addition and likely drive new owners to the site. I personally don't have the time for live play and wouldn't really use it, but I'm sure it would be popular if it was easy to use.

But like others have said, dynamic pricing or at the very least some kind of engine update is needed for me to get fully back into the game. Right now I'm only in three progressives and I've lost interest in any leagues outside of that format. Occasionally I look at theme league ads, start drafting a team, and then realize I'm going to be running the same old players I know are the best value. The excitement and challenge is gone for me as it's a solved game at this point after so many years of the same players at the same salaries.

Posted by BillyMartin1 on 3/15/2026 7:42:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bagchucker4 on 3/14/2026 10:01:00 PM (view original):

Posted by BillyMartin1 on 3/14/2026 8:55:00 AM (view original):
@bagchucker4

"Pay for the fun of dominatin the hobbyist"

There's no fun in that. You make it sound like if you're winning you're a bully picking on those who aren't.

For me the fun isn't win at any cost, as in drafting all the cookies available, it's trying to win a certain way, trying different strategies and ideas.
I've won OLs and TLs with all sorts of different strategies, high AVG team, +++ range team, pure SB team, SLG team, using only players from one franchise etc...

About your previous post;
"i think these new guys know their numbers
let em run
lets see what happens "

If they really knew their numbers, they wouldn't basically cut rewards in half, by having us pay 50% in cash and expect us to feel thrilled about the change.
WITHOUT FIRST OFFERING US SOMETHING REAL IN EXCHANGE FOR OUR CASH.

Who really thinks it's great idea to ask customers to pay more money for an outdated product that hasn't been updated in about two decades? Seriously!

We'll "let them run", yes.
Because we don't have a choice, they didn't ask for our opinion.

"Let's see what happens", sure.
Because, we don't have a choice there either.

I know what will happen in my case. They won't get more of my money.
That is unless they finally make the updates they've been promising since they took over the game.

I couldn't care less about that app, it's not making the actual game better.
I'm not going to pay for it.

i call boo shy

you will be back under another name

and you will pay for it

are you not aware of something called inflation

been goin on since the covid days and beyond

people got to make a living

has the cost of a team gone up since i been here? maybe once that i can remember. 20 years i think i been here

correct me if i'm wrong

Nope, I won't be back, only reason I'm still here is because I don't have to pay with the recent ToC credits I won.

Like mensu said, once I'm done with my credits, I'm gone, unless they start updating the game.

I wonder why you're kissing arse so much, you an alt of the current owner team or something?

Anyhow, it doesn't matter who you are or what you think, you're alone with your point of view.

All the owners/customers who have posted in this thread pretty much feel the same way I do, very understandably.

yes, i run this show

get used to it

we're gonna stop with all the prizes and credits and such

in the near future its gonna be all trucker hats all the time

@ 06gsp

Live play is an update that would make the deal a lot more interesting already, I was a big Live Play user and I missed it the moment it was gone.

I've been playing WIS approx 20 years. Still trying to win a TOC series and advance to the 2nd round. The dream is to actually go far enough in a TOC to actually win a few free games........... Never have I done it.

Was a nice goal. NOW they tell me it's only worth half as much AND I have to pay MORE $$$ to access anything I may have won/earned thru a good team, finally!!!

That's a huge crap on my face as a longtime customer.

I won't abide it. When my current credits are gone..........so am I!

Agreed...live play would definitely get my attention.

"It’s not worth half as much. You still save the same amount of money its just that the savings are stretched out."

I'm not sure what your logic is here.....free is free....paying anything it is no longer free...........

not trying to get into a ******* contest here but I don't see letting a pretty poorly communicated message get off the hook....

I appreciate contrarian posting this thread...I had not read the app message since I had no intention of using it...

but I did take the advice and now have 75 teams in my "Draft Center Teams"....yeah....I've been around a while....

And I’m not letting anyone off the hook im the one who first called out the burying the announcement in this thread.

Yea, but your "free credits" aren't free. You have to SPEND $$ to access them. Now I have to buy two half price cookies....... instead of getting a whole cookie free. I may not want a second cookie! I may be 99 years old!

At a minimum they should have made the announcement far enough in advance that leagues finish without their prize support changing partway through the league. It’s bs to sign up for one thing and get another.

Somebody should post the math behind HOW this site operates.

You know 24 teams X 12.95 each----- less the $3.00, $6.00, and division winner payoffs, plus the WS champion credit.

See just how much Margin the site operates with on EACH 24 team League. Each 20 Team League, etc.

I think that might be quite eye opening.
And I'm quite sure it will NOT look good in regards to this change!!

Not to defend this change, as I think it was poorly considered (my full thoughts at the bottom), and implemented even more poorly. But, to counter the above, the math is probably exactly why this change was considered. From a strict margin standpoint, there are solid margins, but when you figure in most of these credits pre-date the current groups purchase, the current ownership group isn't seeing those margins. Consider:

Assumption 1 - All teams are purchased at full price (rounding to nearest dollar): 24x$13=$312 per league. Prizes equal $46 for a single league + TOC portion adjusted to a per league basis of $14. So, each league in this assumption makes $312 and gives out $60 in prizes. 19.2% of league revenue given back to users.

Assumption 2 - All teams are part of a 6-pack and $10: 24*$10=$240, same prize structure, which means 25% of league revenue is now given out as prizes.

However, we know neither of these are how things actually play out. Most OLs are filled with owners who continually put in similar teams and earn credit after credit after credit. Theme league creators get their own credit, which means TL pay a larger % back to users than OL, and the most popular TL are the TOC advantage style leagues that help the same group of owners earn more credits. Roughly 50-60% of OLs are filled with owners who have teams in virtually every OL. Even if only half of their current purchases are paid with credits we get the following:

Assumption 3 - 50% credits and 50% full price (12*$5)+(12*$13)=$216, and now we're at 27.8% of league revenue for an OL going back to users. For a theme league this is approaching 34%.

Now, when you factor that *ALL* current credits pre-date current ownership, and several owners have enough credits to play free for years, plus the overall userbase is dwindling, meaning the share of credit purchases is increasing, it very well may be that in TLs, these numbers approach closer to 75% of teams paid with credits where (18*$5)+(6*$13)=$168, meaning 44% of league revenue goes back to the users....

With a robust userbase, this would fine, as the distribution mirrors closer to assumption 1, but as things currently stand, the above may even be understating the impact and % back to users might even be above 50%.

To be clear, I think this change is horrible. If the “vast majority” already fall in this range -- as the announcement says -- why would you want to limit/hurt your power users. This is basically just minimizing how many teams players like contrarian, ozo, ribbentrop skunk, mensu, gonoles, and a few others buy and use. While that impact is really only felt by a small number of users, it's essentially just the sites biggest advocates and those driving the game’s continued adoption and growth. By limiting them, you've effectively killed what remains of the dwindling userbase and those that are still driving non-credit revenue. Also, if the "vast majority" quote is true, it only makes sense if it's true on a user level, not a team/league level, otherwise the math behind this decision makes no sense.

IMO only.

"... otherwise the math behind this decision makes no sense."

End of story for me.