I've been playing around with a few lineups and it got me to thinking of this exercise.

Build a roster that player x couldn't improve if he were swapped in for one of the 5.

I think Jordan is the hardest, followed pretty closely by Bron.

Steph seems to be #3.

4 through 8 are very close and tightly grouped.

Anyone want to play along?

Build the 5 man squad that Jordan or Bron doesn't automatically improve.

I actually had the same lineup for both and the results are pretty similar.

I would try balance the starting 5 to get higher points per possession (through total usage and eFG%) than you would with MJ/LeBron; then find some aspect which the other players are better, like defense, offensive rebounding, assist%. Something like:

C 66-67 Wilt Chamberlain (lots of seasons to choose)
PF 78-79 Moses Malone (80 def, 18.2 Oreb%!)
SF 12-13 Kevin Durant (lots of seasons to choose, Warriors seasons are better but lower minutes)
SG 74-75 Julius Erving (100 def at 4 positions, better offensive rebounder)
PG 94-95 John Stockton (low usage%, high eFG%, crazy high Ast%)

Maybe swap SGA for Stockton and Rodman for Moses Malone(to give more FG attempts to higher % shooters)?

I think Jordan in for Stockton improves the team. Not because Stockton isn't great.

Because Jordan's scoring value is much larger than the incremental passing value Stockton provides.

The lineup is strangely cramped. Wilt and Moses together is a lot of paint occupation. Dr. J also preferred attacking the rim.

So despite having KD, this isn't some beautifully spaced modern offense. Jordan would actually help because he's a better half-court shot creator than everyone except KD.

Looks like you're trying to create a team where every possession is efficient. But the best all-time teams aren't just efficient. They're resilient.

They need answers when the first option fails. Jordan and LeBron are arguably the two greatest "problem solvers" ever. That matters IMO.


The Rodman-for-Moses suggestion is actually more interesting.

Now you have:

• Stockton
• Dr. J
• KD
• Rodman
• Wilt

This lineup is weird.

The defense could be insane.

The rebounding could be insane.

But now Jordan replacing Stockton becomes even more obvious to me.

Replacing Moses with Rodman reduces the lineup's overall half-court scoring burden coverage, which makes the lack of perimeter shot creation more noticeable, which is obviously solved by adding Jordan over Stockton.

Replacing Stockton with Shai Gilgeous-Alexander is actually stronger.

Now at least you have a modern scoring guard, rim pressure, and shot creation.

But then you've basically admitted the problem. You've started moving toward a player whose value proposition is closer to Jordan.


One thing I do when I evaluate these lineups is ask:

"When I add Jordan, what gets worse?"

I'm not sure anything does. Maybe assists go down. Maybe Stockton has fewer touches. But does the team become worse? I don't see it.

Likewise with LeBron. LeBron for Stockton seems like a massive upgrade.

Now you have:

• LeBron
• Dr. J
• KD
• Moses
• Wilt

and an enormous playmaking increase IMO.

You have given it a lot of thought! Stockton was pretty good, and I think far more responsible for Karl Malone's success than the other way around. In real life I think MJ would improve any lineup. I think there are lots of lineups where LeBron would be the 4th or 5th most intense player, and I think ABA era Julius Erving is a better player relative to the rest of basketball than prime LeBron. I put Pippen in this lineup because I think he is an all-time great defender who can guard 4 positions and bring the ball up and push the fast break. Duncan is similar, all-time great on D, defends 3 positions.

PG Magic
SG Pippen
SF Bird
PF Tim Duncan
C Kareem

I'd say it's ALMOST as hard to exclude Steph, due to his unique gravity and the spacing he creates.

The only roster I could make where it was even a question was:


Bron
Jordan
Bird
Kareem
Shaq


Curry COULD replace Bird, which would be everyone's first impulse, but it's not as clear as some may think.

BECAUSE:

Offensive layers already saturated:
Rim pressure (elite): LeBron + Shaq + Jordan
Midrange dominance: Jordan + Bird + Kareem
Post scoring gravity: Shaq + Kareem
Playmaking hubs: LeBron + Bird

So this is already:

a fully collapsed interior + midrange + creation system

What does Curry uniquely add?

Curry’s unique value is NOT scoring in general.

It is off-ball relocation gravity at elite volume, permanent perimeter distortion without possession, system-wide spacing even when he is not initiating


The key stress question.

Does this roster already force: “you cannot help anywhere ever”? Yes—but differently.

Because:

Shaq + Kareem force paint commitment
Jordan forces perimeter isolation coverage
LeBron forces transition + rim collapse
Bird spreads floor and passes

So defenses are already fully stretched vertically and horizontally.


Where Curry would actually matter

Curry only matters here if the defense can still “park” off-ball defenders somewhere.

But in this roster:

Shaq demands constant doubles
Kareem punishes single coverage
Jordan punishes weak-side help
LeBron collapses rotations
Bird punishes switching errors

So defensive help geometry is already constantly unstable everywhere on the floor.


Real comparison

With Curry:
spacing improves further
but mostly by adding redundancy to an already maxed spacing system

Without Curry:
you already have:
elite shooting (Bird, Jordan, Kareem midrange)
elite gravity (Shaq, LeBron)
elite passing (LeBron, Bird)

So Curry does NOT unlock a new layer of defense-breaking

Final verdict:

Curry does NOT clearly improve this roster, because all of his meaningful value (off-ball gravity, spacing distortion, defensive stretching) is already fully saturated by Bird + Jordan + LeBron, while interior dominance from Shaq and Kareem forces maximum defensive collapse.


That was the ONE roster I could construct where adding Curry was not CLEARLY beneficial.